SEPARATE END DETECTION OF POINTS

[JREDDY]

Can you please suggest the answer for the following Question.

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of Seperate and combined detection for each end of a multi-ended set of points. Include in the answer consideration of
a. Interlocking logic design and
b.Testing and commissioning and
c. Maintenance and fault clearance and
d.Train operations and
e. Indications given to the signaller.

[PJW]

Can you please suggest the answer for the following Question.

Discuss the advantages and disadvantages of Separate and combined detection for each end of a multi-ended set of points.......

This was actually one of the questions that we considered at the GM Rail mod5 event in July. Therefore perhaps one of the attendees will post something to demonstrate wht they learnt at it.

However whilst waiting, you should have an attempt yourself. You will gain more from that than being given "an answer on a plate".

You don't say why you are particularly interested in this question, nor give much clue of your experience and background, so it isn't easy to know how best to start you off. For example, do you actually know what is meant by "separate" and "combined" detection?- if so then you should be able to work out at least some advantages / disadvantages for yourself; if not then you will need to find out what is meant. Indeed, like many IRSE questions, "scoping" the question is a significant part of it- there are actually "shades of grey" between the two extremes quoted and to have enough material to gain good marks for your 25 minutes of writing then I think you'd need to explore these as well as the "black" and the "white". Hope this is enough to give you a nudge in the right direction, but if not ask again. I'll help you get to an answer to the IRSE's question but not just give you one ready made.

[JREDDY]

I know some advantages and disadvantages. But what I am going to write may not be satisfied by the reviewer. Hence I am asking. Please suggest the answer.

[mukund]

Hi PJW,

I have had one reply from you in recent past when I asked about GM Rail workshop. As I am in Australia, I could not get chance to participate in this workshop. Is there any chance that you can get answers from there workshop and post them here.

I am preparing for module 5 and have enrolled in end of june, so eventually I only have few months to prepare.

Regards,

[PJW]

Hi PJW,

I have had one reply from you in recent past when I asked about GM Rail workshop. As I am in Australia, I could not get chance to participate in this workshop. Is there any chance that you can get answers from there workshop and post them here.

Regards,

In that reply I said:
"The mock paper for mod5 ... is already there for people like yourself to offer their answers..........

Although we have produced ...answers so that we have something against which to review the efforts, we don't intend to make these widely available ....."

To be clear I am very happy to review your efforts whether you post them in open forum here, use the "answer anonymous facility" or email to me privately; however I am not going to post answers that were prepared for the event here.
The idea of the exam is to be an end goal to encourage a period of self-development to increase knowledge and expand understanding; not to learn parrot-fashion a few answers in the final weeks before the exam in the hope that a similar question may come up this year. There are some suggested module 5 answers on this website to give you a bit of an idea of what is required; I consider that these should be enough to start you off.

Also see this post

[nthomso3]

Hi all,

Just a quick question. This subject question has come up over the past few years but I don't seem to be able to find out much information regarding it.

Are there any particular standards/books which would cover this in a bit more detail than my current knowledge?

Edit: I just noticed another thread on the same topic although there were no real suggestions of reading material. I have a good knowedge of points detection but would still like to see if I can expand on that.

Cheers,

Neil

[Peter]

For the UK mainline case, NR issued a supplement to their standard 11600 in the form of TI038 which sets out their policy for this (ie that separate detection relays will be provided). There have also been several iterations of documentation on representation of control tables in the shape of TI057, although this has now been incorporated into NR/L3/SIG11202.

If you have not got access to these, PJW can probably give you chapter and verse as he wrote the original TI.

[nthomso3]

I've got access to these yes thanks!

[PJW]

If you have not got access to these, PJW can probably give you chapter and verse as he wrote the original TI.

and then later when working on a real project had to apply for a non-compliance against my own wording, got the job of re-wording for issue 2 so that then the power that be could reject my non-compliance application on the grounds that I was then compliant! What a world.

I DID NOT however write TI038 issue1 or issue 2 or issue 3. I have however applied for a non-compliance against issue 1 which got rejected as by the time they considered it issue 2 had been published which automatically annulled my application. I have now achieved a non compliance to a small detail (which iin my view is still very badly worded) in issue 3.

Re point detection a little more generally and discussion of double-cut circuits: I do recommend reading John Alexander's paper in IRSE News early in 2009. Don't forget that he is one of the module 3 examiners- it is my hunch that a question related to that article may well come up in either mod3 or mod5.